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HomeMy WebLinkAbout12.17.98 Minutes CITY OF SOUTH SAN FRANCISCO REGULAR PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES MUNICIPAL SERVICES BUILDING 33 ARROYO DRIVE December 17, 1998 CALL TO ORDER / PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE The meeting was called to order at 7:30 p.m. ROLL CALL / CHAIR COMMENTS MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman Barnett, Vice Chairman Teglia, Commissioner Masuda, Commissioner Romero, Commissioner Baldocchi, Commissioner Honan, Commissioner Sim MEMBERS ABSENT: None ALSO PRESENT: Planning Division: Jim Harnish, Chief Planner Steve Carlson Mike Upston Adam Lindgren Richard Harmon S gt. Mike Massoni City Attorney: Engineering: Police Dept.: AGENDA REVIEW APPROVAL OF MINUTES: · November 19, 1998 Motion-Honan/Second-Teglia. Approved by unanimous voice vote. . December 3, 1998 - No action taken. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS None CONSENT CALENDAR F:\FILE CABINET\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 1 of 26 1. Oyster Point IDn2 V enture~ Owner: City of South San Francisco~ Oyster Point Boulevard & Marina Way~ Applicant: Kin2 Ventures~ Case Nos. MND 96-079~ GPA 96-079~ PM 96-079 and PP 96-079 General Plan Amendment to expand the land use designations on selected sites designated for public park uses, allowing a hotel in an area designated Open Space and related text amendments, Zoning Amendment allowing a hotel in an area designated Open Space and related text changes and changing the use diagram, Tentative Parcel Map to reconfigure property boundaries between several parcels, and a Precise Plan for phased development comprised of office, hotel and restaurant facilities, situated on a site bounded by Oyster Point Boulevard and Marina Way. (Continuedfrom November 19, 1998, staffrecommends continuance to January 7, 1999). 2. City of South San Francisco~ Applicant~ Telecommunication Communication Ordinance~ Case Nos. ZA-98-094 and Ne2ative Declaration No. 98-094 Amendment of Title 20 (Zoning Ordinance) of the South San Francisco Municipal Code adding regulations establishing siting, design and review and approval procedures of telecommunication facilities throughout the City. (Continuedfrom December 3, 1998, staffrecommends continuance to January 21, 1999 3. Gateway Lot 1 & 9 Resubdivision~ HMS Gateway Office~ L.P~ Applicant~ 601. 951 Gateway Boulevard~ Case No. PM-98-082 and PUD-98-082 Parcel Map to resubdivide two existing lots totaling 39.14 acres into 5 new commercial lots with reciprocal access easements throughout, and Planned Unit Development to allow creation of lots, which do not abut a dedicated public street. (Continued from November 19, 1998, staffrecommends continuance to January 21, 1999) Motion- Teglia/Second-Honan. Consent Calendar approved by unanimous voice vote PUBLIC HEARING - AGENDA ITEMS 4. St. AU2ustine's Church~ Roman Catholic Archbishop of San Francisco~ Owner/Applicant~ 3700 Callan Boulevard~ Case No. PUD-98-052 and Ne2ative Declaration ND-98-052 Planned Unit Development and Negative Declaration allowing expansion of an existing church and a new private school situated at 3700 Callan Boulevard in the Medium Density Residential zone district (R-2-I-P). (Continuedfrom December 3, 1998) Associate Planner Upston presented the Staff Report. William Starr, with Marshall Lee Architects representing the applicant provided the Commission with some visual material and history of the project. He noted that the parish was founded in F:\FILE CABINET\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 2 of 26 1970, and grew from 2300 families when it first started to 3300 families today. In response to the issue raised at the last meeting of the adjacent land that was sold, he noted that their research indicates that it was sold to cover the debt for building the church, at a time when overall school enrollment throughout the area was down, and catholic schools were under attended. He called on Sister Glenn Anne McPhee, Superintendent of Schools to provide information on the Pastoral Plan and Feasibilitv Study. Sister Glenn Anne McPhee noted that in 1993, the Archdiocese of San Francisco began a three year long range planning feasibility study, for San Francisco County, San Mateo County, and Marin County in an endeavor to plan for future parish and church needs into the next millennium. She stated that at that time it became very evident that there was a great need for more catholic school space in San Mateo County where they continue to turn away children at the kindergarten entry age by as many as a whole class at a time. She stated that through the study identified three places as candidates for catholic education: St. Bartholomew's in Alameda de Las Pulgas, St. Matthias near 280, and St. Augustine. She stated that St. Bartholomew's is an unreinforced masonry building which carried a financial impact, and St. Matthias did not have enough children to warrant moving forward with a school. However the feasibility study at St. Augustine's together with townhall meetings showed that there were hundreds of families who wanted catholic education, and many children in the parish boundaries were, and are currently going out to other catholic schools in the neighborhood: All Souls, St. Veronica's, Mater Dolorosa, St. Thomas Moore, Our Lady of Mercy, Our Lady of Perpetual Help. She noted that from the outset there was a strong feeling on the part of the parish community that they did not want to separate the expansion of church from the school project. She provided information for detailing the importance of having a school adjacent to or near the parish noting that the parish church is an integral part of the academic life of the school. She noted that the parish community made a marvelous commitment to raise the funds to make a school available at this site. She noted that in terms of the preliminary planning, they are aware of the issues around noise, children and traffic, noting that she has a very strong prejudice, for the fact that there is no better noise or one that God would want to be heard more than children. She noted that currently there is a lot of outbound traffic, from people choosing catholic education in St. Augustine's parish who have to drive out of the neighborhood. She noted that catholic schools are traditionally neighborhood schools, located within a geographic area, with the hopes that children will be able to walk to school, which is what is being encouraged, adding that she felt that traffic would probably decrease as a result of the school. She noted that they have had innumerable conversations in terms of the importance of this school, and urged the Commission to think of what a difference it would make. She provided statistics on catholic education noting that last year 100% of catholic schools twelfth grade graduates went on to post secondary education, proving the value for both the civic community and the catholic church. William Starr noted that early on, during preliminary planning, they had identified the issues that were of concern to the neighborhood which were parking, and traffic, primarily related to the church expansion, as well as concerns for traffic for the school, and noise issue. F:\FILE CABINET\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 3 of 26 He noted that they met with Planning and Police, as well as with the community meetings, relatively early on and focused on preparing a traffic report. He noted that they sent out quite a few notices, and the notices have been expanded. He noted that the early interest was minimal, so they felt that people understood what was going on, and the benefits. However, the interest has increased in the last couple of weeks. He commented that they are aware of the importance that the parishioners understand that street parking is a big issue; and by adopting the traffic improvement program, it is the parish's goal to take responsibility. He provided graphics and statistical details regarding the current capacity. He noted that the proposed 800-person capacity is intended to accommodate the current congregation. He informed the Commission that one thing that came up at the community meetings which they had not anticipated is the possible increase due to new housing units that are planned. He spoke of the problem with the parking lot being over filled, which has shown improvement since the addition of the 4:00 p.m. mass. He noted that the parking lot has 196 parking spaces, which would increase to 220 under the new plan, and additional 28 spaces through onsite double parking as outlined, for a total of 248 parking spaces. He noted that in October they had commissioned a parking count by Wilson Engineering, and the study found that the parking on the street occurred even when the parking lot was not filled. He stated that from experience, this seems to happen at all the parishes, where people prefer to park on the street, adding that this area is fortunate that there is quite a bit of street parking available on Callan and Greendale. The study found that the average number of people in each car was about two, and the total average church goers was 2.96 or 3 people per car, and the pedestrian rate was over 20%. He noted that the parts that are incorporated in the project are better site access through the two-way circulation, and generally improved circulation around the site. He stated that the traffic and parking improvement program focused on proposing a reduction over the current loads, which is 40 cars from coming to the site at peak masses, and 11 cars from parking on the street. In response to the issue raised at the last meeting, that students would be coming from outside the area, he provided graphics and information which indicates that 90% of the students live within a 1 mile radius, and 70% are South San Francisco residents. In response to the noise concerns, he indicated that it is limited for a short duration; they would have a split recess to reduce the number of children; they have committed to have minimum bells; the two play yard sites are buffered by the city green belt; and, in addition houses directly adjacent to the site have sound reduction features. He provided further information with reference to the traffic study which he noted included four intersections, and provided for 92 future housing units, plus a 1 % growth factor calculated to determine the traffic outlook by the year 2005, which indicates that there was no significant change in traffic in the area as a result of the school being built. He noted that the study showed the existing intersections have, and would maintain light congestion, which qualifies as 20 second delays or less, even with the morning commute. Callan and King, which is the worst intersection that they studied, showed no more than a 5-second delay. He noted that these findings may be conservative since they were based on a regional private school factor which F:\FILE CABINET\OLD PC\WORKING\MlNUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 4 of 26 includes K-12, that would reflect people driving to school, and does not reflect the elimination factor currently occurring of driving to other schools, or car pooling. He summarized the project improvements as follows: · three on-site drop off zones that are substantial in length; · staggered start time for the school; · cue lines are all on-site, not on Greendale or Callan; · traffic and parking improvement program committed to reducing the impacts described in the traffic report by an additional 15%, or 51 trips to the site; He detailed the project benefits: · Beneficial use, good combination of neighborhood uses, religious and educational which uses space effectively, instead of having the parking area open all week long with no use, it is used as a play yard for the school; · Improves the existing poor parking and situation; · Provides the uses where they are needed as demonstrated by the maps; · Addresses the traffic at the source instead of moving it somewhere else; · Motivates the parish community to continue to improve the parking and traffic situation through the program; · Establishes a means for ongoing communications, through yearly meetings with the neighbors in an effort to keep the traffic issue under control; · Makes a substantial aesthetic improvement to the neighborhood by providing substantial landscaping in an area that is lacking. He asked that the Commission approve the project with the conditions, including implementation of the Traffic Improvement Plan, which locks the church into the improvements set forth for reductions in parking and traffic, demonstrates to the City that, through independent verification, traffic reductions have been met before the building permit is issued, and that the complaint procedure be implemented prior to going to construction. Chairman Barnett requested that, since prior public testimony has already been taken, all speakers limit their comments to new input. Joe Twymon, 3700 Callan Boulevard, noted that he spent 28 years as a fire protection engineer and is a commissioner for the parish for materials and finance involving construction of a building. He commented that in terms of the parking problem, he is aware of only one situation where anybody has been tagged, and it was at their recommendation. He noted that the bulletin repetitively cautions that cars illegally parked will be tagged, and there is not much more the parish can do. With reference to the noise problem, he stated that Westborough Middle School is situated two blocks from the proposed site, and while he can hear them and their bells, Westview Elementary School is located over a mile away, and even going at great lengths to verify, including areas that don't have noise abatement, he has never heard bells. He commented that looking toward the entire block of the church, he had not observed any area where view would be blocked. Chris Christenson, noted that he lives in Daly City and is considering moving into the area. He stated property value goes up in the areas with a school and church. He noted that he is a F:\FILE CABINET\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 5 of 26 member of The Knights of Columbus, who are interested in the community, they will work with the community. Debra Frenna, 2685 Sean Court commented that she was focusing on some of the issues, since she had been assured at the last meeting that all comments would be considered. She stated that most residents she spoke with would probably not object to the church expansion, if the church were to acquire land for a church-parking annex. She noted that many residents are opposed to the church building a private new school for 300 students because the site is too small, and they don't want more traffic, parking problems, or noise. She stated that St. Augustine's parish serves Daly City, Pacifica, San Bruno and other cities, in addition to South San Francisco, adding that the City currently has three catholic schools, and there are catholic schools in adjacent cities. She noted that residents in opposition of the proposal have requested a student eligibility list from the church showing the names and addresses of students who are living in the area and would be attending the new school. She noted that she has suggested that the church open a private school at an existing site, or purchase another property that would better accommodate a school of this size. She noted that there was never any disclosure when they purchased their homes that a school could be opened up at 3700 Callan, and they live one block away. She noted that she called several local school districts, and the Facilities Manager at Laguna Salada School District in Pacifica has told her that Fairmont Elementary and Westview will be closing in the near future, and no decision has been reached about what they will do with the sites, and he would welcome proposals, and encouraged her to write a letter so he could have a committee discuss the proposal. She noted that the noise from the school will affect residents living on and beyond west side of Callan Boulevard because they are outside the boundaries identified in the SFO noise abatement program, and she was told by Mr. Valkenaar of the City's noise insulation program, that there is no guarantee that the boundaries will ever be extended. She noted that residents are concerned that children from other cities would be transported to the neighborhood adding to the congestion. She noted that she carefully read the Mitigated Negative Declaration, commenting that the traffic study performed by Wilson Engineering describes I 280 traffic volume in the vicinity of Westborough Boulevard Interchange, which references Caltrans, 1995. She noted that those statistics are outdated, because the traffic problems have changed due to the SFO expansion and new businesses and condominiums in the area. She noted that another study was conducted in February 1998 of morning and afternoon hour traffic volume surrounding intersections of the church which only summarized traffic flow at four intersections, and did not do an analysis of Skyline Boulevard, or Highway 280, or take into consideration new condominiums and housing that have been approved, or are being built. She commented that the cumulative year 2005 traffic condition section used very conservative estimates of vehicles. She indicated that she has been given information that indicates that soon after this proposal is passed, another proposal will be made for before school, and after school childcare, which will cause a problem with commute, since they will be dropping off and picldng up during peak hours. She asked that the Commission think carefully about the issues and the impact that the proposal F:\FILE CABINET\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 6 of 26 will have on residents and businesses in the area. She reminded the Commission that although they are appointed, and not elected by South San Francisco voters, their responsibility is to serve the interest of South San Francisco, not the interest of a particular church or parishioners that are residents from other cities. George Ado noted that he is president of the Knights of Columbus, with a total current membership of 246, most being residents of the St. Augustine's parish, who will be celebrating their tenth year in existence. He noted that over those years they have been in the forefront of volunteer service for the parish, particularly in traffic management and control. He noted that with this project they have passed a resolution, which will be executed in deeds. He added that he resided across the street from Mater Dolorosa from 1983 to 1986, where the population is somewhere around 250, compared to the projections for this school, which will probably not reach 200 students. His observation as a resident of that area was that there never was an instance of traffic problems, despite the fact that no other measures were taken to monitor traffic. He noted that they are 100% behind the project for both the school and expansion of the church. Eleanor Briete, 3836 Palos Verdes noted that she is a 26 year resident of this address and stated that the City of South San Francisco is growing, mainly due to biotech, and the City's population is anticipated to reach 70,000, proves the need for schools. She stated that having St. Augustine's provide for 300 of those students would definitely help the City. She addressed the concerns raised about attendance to various masses, noting that she has observed a trend in people switching to different masses, and has observed a lot of people walking to church along Palos Verdes Way and Greendale. She noted that the people are trying very hard to cooperate with the City and the neighborhood, in addressing their concerns, which also affect her, since she lives very close. Nestor Villarosa, noted that prior to moving to Daly City in 1975 he lived on Ardee Lane, and during that time there were only a few people who attended the parish. He added that over the years many people have moved into the area and support the parish. He stated that South San Francisco is very fortunate that traffic, as compared to other areas is much more free and controlled in Westborough. He added that he fully supports the project to build a school and expand the church for the community and for the future of our children, and believes the parishioners are prepared to take care of the problems. Ed Ang, 2685 Tipperary noted that he has resided in the area for approximately 24 years. He noted that he represented the small Christian community of St. Augustine's which is comprised of a small group of communities who currently have 500 participants, and expects that number to grow, who wish to express their strong commitment to insure that fellow parishioners are educated to comply with parking regulation, encourage churchgoers to carpool, promote walldng, and caution parishioners against blocldng driveways or double parking, and encourage worshiping at less attended masses. He noted that this is a community issue which he believes can be resolved. Teresa Dorr, 3781 Callan Boulevard questioned the numbers being used. She noted that at the last Planning Commission meeting it had been suggested that the number of cars on the streets belong to the residents. She provided the Commission with two sets of pictures, commenting that "unless the residents of Westborough were kidnapped at 2:50 p. m. on Sunday, and returned F:\FILE CABINET\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 7 of 26 safely to their homes at 5:30, they are not residential automobiles". She pointed to the comment made by Rev. Tungol at the last Planning Commission which she indicated he quoted 4000 active parishioners, and that that number had increased from 1,000 between 1991 and 1998, which a 400% increase. She noted that while that is wonderful for the church, it is the source of the problem. She continued, that taking the church's own numbers from tonight's overhead, they have grown from 2300 families to 3300 families. She stated that the last time she checked, a family involved a mommy and a daddy and maybe a kid or two; which means we don't have 4,000 active members now, we have a minimum of 6600 and probably 9900. She stated that taking the church's own numbers from their own report which says that there are 2.96 members per car, taking into consideration the number of services it translates to 18 cars per minute on Callan, which she stated if you're pregnant and trying to get out of your driveway, you're having your baby in the car, if it's on a Sunday. She noted that she doesn't care about the noise, and agrees with the Sister that children make a joyous noise. She commented that the church's numbers don't add up and are inconsistent with what was stated at the last Planning Commission meeting. She stated that at the last meeting Rev. Tungol had been asked if building the school was a fund raising effort, and he said no, yet tonight's overhead showed that it was vital to the fund raising effort. She indicated that they have been told that the parldng projections are based on a 1 % growth rate, but over the last 8 years there has been 50% growth per year in that parish. She noted that the intersections that were looked at were Callan and King, which is a regulated 4-way stop sign; Callan and Westborough which is a stop light, and Callan and Greendale, which is another 4-way regulated stop sign noting that if you fall between those regulated stop signs, you can't get out of your driveway. She commented that there was mention that only three neighbors were opposed, yet, if you look at the number of signatures, you'll find more. Chairman Barnett asked for clarification on the speaker's comments that the cars were not residential cars. Ms. Dorr noted that testimony rendered at the last meeting indicated that these were not parishioner's cars parldng on the streets. She indicated that what you will find is that because most residents have two car garages and driveways, the parldng areas on the street are relatively vacant. Larry Dorr stated that between the previous meeting and tonight's meeting he heard two different sets of numbers concerning number of parishioners, number of students in the school, and where they live. He suggested that the Commission do what he did last Sunday, by going up to Callan and Greendale and observe the cars going 40 M.P.H., the number of drivers who believe Callan is two ways in both direction, the number of cars going in and out of the parldng lot, the number of cars parking either on the other side of Greendale or the other side of Callan and the number of pedestrians jaywalking across. Chairman Barnett requested that out of respect to the people who are addressing the Commission that the audience keeps their comments to themselves while people are talldng. Commissioner Romero asked if the remainder of the speakers could be asked to limit the F:\FILE CABINET\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 8 of 26 amount of time they speak. Juanita Umipeg noted that she has been a resident of the Westborough area for the last 32 years and during this time has seen growth in the area. She indicated that when she moved here, there was no freeway. She commented that she sees growth as progress, which requires adjustment. She commented that a 400% increase must speak for the faith filled community, adding that something must be happening spiritually in the community. She asked the Commission to approve the building of a parochial school and expansion of the church, commenting that the public schools are crowded, and there are not enough parochial schools in the area. She noted that she has seen children bused all over the place, and when her children were small, they had to be car pooled to Mater Dolorosa School, which was difficult, since there were no parochial schools in the area. She stated that approving the school would allow parents to have their children closer to home and approving the expansion of the church would make traffic less congested. She stated that the church community has been maldng efforts to cut down the parldng and congestion problems, which could be one reason why the numbers are causing some confusion. She noted that by building the school and expanding the church, the City would benefit. She also noted that the church community has been blessed in many ways by bringing people closer together, adding that she finds this to be a very, very safe community, which may be attributed to their church. Norman Leoncio, noted that he has been a resident of lAppian Way for many years, and prior to that was a resident of Archdale Court for a total of approximately 28 years. He noted that he raised two sons here and found it to be a very good community. He stated that the reason he was here tonight was to share his concerns and support for the expansion of the church and building of the school is because he has heard issues discussed which could be detrimental to the community. He asked that the benefits be weighed against the disadvantages and consideration be made to whether this is a legacy of quality education and spiritual guidance that can be left to the children of the community, as opposed to building prisons, casinos or things that do not benefit the community and the children. He commented on the need to look at intrinsic value and the human factor which he noted is oftentimes overlooked in many developments and projects, adding that when you get a community to work together, regardless of the challenges, they will find solutions. He noted that he was presenting his case as a long time resident who is just as concerned as anyone else is about what goes into the community. Jackie Williams, of 242 Longford Drive noted that about six houses from her is a public school, Serra Vista, which can accommodate 350 students, and is closed. She noted that six months ago San Mateo County wanted to put in juvenile delinquents, and the community had stopped it, because what they want there is a school. She noted that it fits within the circle that was described in one of the renderings presented by Mr. Starr. She noted that in speaking with the Superintendent, and the architect she was told that six weeks ago the architect spoke with Bill Malone at the school, who told him that the school was not available, yet the community is being asked to come up with some use for the school. She noted that currently the school is being used by Art Rise, headstart and extended education. She added that the School Board has indicated that the growth in school kids is not there, yet it seems that the need for parochial schools is there. She noted that the site at Serra Vista would not have a problem with the noise, parldng is a bit of a problem, but it is available, and the current use is temporary. She asked if there was any other place besides the School Board where she could go find out why the school is saying that F:\FILE CABINET\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 9 of 26 there are no leases available. She noted that she has spoken with the St. Augustine people and they have indicated that they would prefer the current proposal, and she did not want to interfere with their proposal, but she just wanted to make it clear that there is a school available, where you can make as much noise as you want, the community would love to have it, and there is a lease available. Lita Songco, 3819 Kent Way noted that she has been a parishioner for 27 years. She noted that when she first moved there, St. Augustine's had space for a school which she had hoped would be available for her children, however that was not possible. She noted that she is in support of this proposal since she is part of the capital campaign, which started in 1996. She noted that they worked hard to raise the money which as of this date totals $2.5M in pledges from parishioners. She noted that they feel strongly that there is a need to expand the church to eliminate the need for people having to stand at the well-attended masses, and in addition they feel that they need a small parochial school, so the parishioners don't have to drive their children to other sites. She stated that as of today they have 960 families who have helped with the campaign to raise the pledges, and there are 1,312 South San Francisco registered parishioners in the parish. She asked that this project not be stopped because a few people are opposed to it versus the thousands of families who want and support the project morally and financially. Melissa Sioson, 2409 Liberty noted that she is a parishioner of St. Augustine and has many friends who have children who are toddlers who have asked her to represent them in expressing the need for a parochial school within walking distance for the community. She noted that she works for a mortgage broker, and based on her experience, having a school in the area (particularly a parochial school) will enhance the value of the homes Joyce Wong, 2217 Greendale Drive noted that she has lived in the area for 27 years and commented that she likes the school, but thinks the site is too small for grades 1 - 8. She suggested that with so many schools in the areas they should look for a bigger area. She also expressed a concern for the traffic, which she noted is a problem. She cited a safety problem, noting that the last two days the police have knocked on her door at 5:30 saying that someone from that address had called 911. She also noted that her house has been burglarized, and her car has been broken into twice and she is concerned that the school will cause more problems. Ronald Davis, 3673 Georgetown Ct. stated that he lives in the second unit from the corner of the entrance of St. Augustine's church. He stated that he attended the meeting at the church about a week ago, where someone stated that the community did not want the school, citing traffic, parking, and noise problems, and commenting that getting out of Duhallow to get onto Callan could take 10 minutes. He noted that he has never experienced delays in the 10 or 15 minutes that are being discussed. He agreed that there is some traffic during the 5 :00 mass, which has been alleviated by the addition of the 4:00 p.m. mass. He stated that the speaker had indicated that she was representing hundreds of signatures, which caused him to wonder why nobody had knocked at his door. He stated that a few days ago, his neighbor saw him washing his car and noted that she had signed a petition against the school because it would devalue her house, which is what she had been told. He indicated that from that he found the need to explore for himself if the community really was against the project. He noted that within three hours the previous day, and an hour an a half that day of going door to F:\FILE CABINE1\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 10 of 26 door with the petition he was able to collect about 180 signatures, which came from the condos at the corner of Callan and Duhallow, Callan and Greendale, Georgetown Court, and immediately surrounding areas, and everyone was eager to have the school, which was exactly the opposite from what he had been told the previous day. He noted that one of the residents who signed the petition, who resides at Callan and Duhallow, one of the busiest intersections, made a comment that during the past month traffic has really dropped. He noted that from what he has heard tonight, and from his experience living at the same residence since 1986 he has not seen traffic become a problem as the community grew, commenting that you should not consider traffic a problem simply because there is a traffic jam at 5:00 p. m. on Sunday. He stated that he has never experienced having to wait even five minutes to cross onto Callan, as has been presented. He indicated that one individual has told him that she signed the petition, because the person collecting signatures was so insistent that she just wanted to get rid of her. He provided a letter from the individual requesting that her name be removed form the list. He noted that the 4:00 p.m. mass has made a big difference, and challenged the Commission to go and see for themselves, adding that he did not feel that a school, which the community wants, and he would have liked to have had when his children were small, (since he was obligated to drive them all the way to Burlingame every morning) should be stopped because of a 5 :00 p.m. mass. He noted that the speeding problem might or may not be South San Francisco residents. He noted that his neighbor has three cars parked outside, and two across the street, which could be in the photographs, which were handed out. Ann Davia, 3690 Bettman Way questioned whether the previous speaker regarding his comments about speakers who were not present, who she stated she knew intimately and had a key to their house, noting that she did not believe he represented them very well, and did not believe they had stated that their property would be devalued. Chairman Barnett intervened and explained that the Commission does not accept testimony from the public to rebut statements that other people make, adding that if she had factual data that sheds light on the project, the Commission would like to hear it. Ms. Davia stated that the ideas that the church is suggesting for dealing with the traffic, parldng and noise problem are not practical, nor enforceable. She noted that the community does not want the proposal to be approved, adding that it is the church community or the parishioners of St. Augustine's church that want the proposal approved at other's expense. Alice Bulos, 2444 Liberty Court noted that she has lived in Westborough for almost 28 years. She stated that in her opinion education is a very important element and an asset, especially in the Filipino community. She asked that the Commission be more understanding for the parochial school that is being proposed in the community. She agreed with the problems presented: the traffic, increased population, and maybe the noise. However she noted that if you weigh those issues against the benefits of educating the children of those living in the Westborough, it would outweigh the problems. She asked that the Commission consider the importance of the school that will be organized in the Westborough area which benefits are that the proposal is centered within the education of the children. Ceasar Fermoso, 111 Valleyview Way noted that he has lived there since 1980, and has seen F:\FILE CABlNE1\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 11 of26 the growth in the St. Augustine church, and he does not agree that there is a traffic problem, even with a school. He noted that he has another house in San Francisco, which is directly across the playground from a public school, and there is a noise coming from the school, but nobody complains about the noise. He noted that the street, 42nd Avenue has traffic for probably two to three minutes, then all the cars are gone. He noted that parking is no problem, considering that the school does not have a parking lot. He noted that there is also a parochial school about two blocks away from that house, and parking is no problem, traffic is no problem, and noise is no problem. He noted that his children attended that school, Holy Names, because St. Augustine's didn't have a school, and he had to drive them and pick them up every morning and he didn't see any noise, traffic, or parking problem in either the public school or the catholic school. Debra Frenna asked for the opportunity to provide additional comments. Stated that no one wants to say no to the church. Chairman Barnett intervened and informed Ms. Frenna that the Commission is not deciding whether churches are good or not, or whether education is good or not. He noted that he knows the Commission well enough to state that they all think schools are good, and the church and community is a great thing, however, that was not the issue at hand, but it was about how a piece of land, and how its integration into the City of South San Francisco is going to be used for a specific purpose. Chairman Barnett closed the public hearing and invited comments from the Commission. Commissioner Romero asked Sister Glenn Anne McPhee to respond to the information that the school district has been approached about the availability of the Foxridge or Serra Vista school, noting that he had previously made that recommendation, and the response that the school district has indicated that they cannot lease the schools to the church. Sister Glenn Anne McPhee responded that Mr. Starr had approached the school district and had been told that there were no available sites for lease. Commissioner Romero noted that he was at a loss to understand that, since he had been at the meeting which was mentioned earlier where they were trying to utilize Serra Vista for the purposes they wanted, which fell through, and subsequently the site was supposedly made available for alternative uses, and now the applicant is telling them that those uses are not available, which is inconsistent with what the school district said at a public meeting. Sister Glenn Anne McPhee noted that she was not at the public meeting and could not comment on that. She reiterated that Mr. Starr had approached the public school district, and was told that sites were not available. Commissioner Romero noted that he just wanted this to go on record. Vice Chairman Teglia commented to the Sister Glenn that he had the same problem. He noted that the issue is not germane to the land use issue, and whether the school needs to be on this piece of property adding that he understands that it is preferable that school be next to the church. He noted that since it was brought up, he felt that the architect's approach to the school district F:\FILE CABINE1\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 12 of 26 was half-hearted and designed for the desired effect that the school is near the church. He noted that the report shows that there were three to five year leases back in 1996, which means the leases would have been available just about the time when the new school would be built. He spoke of the comments that some school districts may have school sites available. He added that Serra Vista and Foxridge are available, and he did not think it was correct to put on the record that the schools are not available. He continued that he understood that it was preferable not to locate offsite, but he thought it was important that it be explored. Commissioner Romero responded that the applicant has put on the record what the school district informed them, and he only intended this as a clarification. Vice Chairman Teglia indicated that he just wanted to make that point, since it caught his eye, which is a separate issue from whether the site is appropriate for the school. He asked the Sister to respond to the comments about the residency of possible students. He asked her how many students projected in the current survey, reside within the parish. The Sister responded that currently 261 children living in the parish community are going to other parochial schools either on the Peninsula or the southern part of the City. Vice Chairman Teglia noted that one of the things about this parish is that they tend to have a regional draw, not just a traditional geographic parish, but draws from a greater area. He asked if any consideration has been given to placing a preference toward local children first. He noted that he felt this is important to make it more of a local community school, while addressing some of the concerns heard. The Sister responded that this would be very consistent with the current policy of the Archdiocese, which is that the children of catholic parents who choose catholic education for their children who are within the geographic boundaries of a parish have first claim on a catholic education. Commissioner Honan asked for clarification on the indication that there will be staggering of the starting time for school. Mr. Starr responded that this would depend on the needs as they arise, adding that he thought it would basically mean that the kindergartners would stagger the classes about five to ten minutes, so that instead of everyone showing up at the same time, the younger children would start earlier. Commissioner Honan asked if catholic schools are required to limit the classes to no more than 20 students, such as is true for public schools. Mr. Starr responded that it is not a requirement however, the class size reduction program in public schools has put some pressure on parochial schools to drop enrollments. He noted that this is one of the reasons why some of the local parochial schools are keeping their enrollment down in order to respond to parent's requests to keep lower class sizes. Commissioner Honan asked about the uncertainty in terms of the staggered hours, and who it would apply to. F:\FILE CABINET\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 13 of 26 Mr. Starr responded that they could not commit to it now, but would accept having it be placed as a condition. Chairman Barnett asked about the earlier comment that if this project is passed, a plan for after school care would come back, which he noted seems very logical, since in this day and age, with most families having two working parents, there is a need for after school care. Mr. Starr noted that he had not personally made the comment, however it had come up at the community meeting, as an issue that children would be at the school later, and therefore coincide with the evening rush hour. He noted that he thought that at some point the school might want to start an after school program, which is usually a substantially smaller number, probably 60 to 75 kids, which they see as a way to help reduce the morning impact because children would be coming earlier with parents dropping them off on their way to work, instead of they all coming at a later time. Chairman Barnett asked if this was part of the plan. Mr. Starr responded that this would depend on the needs of the school as it develops, and it would require coming back before the Planning Department as another proposal. Commissioner Romero asked if it would also include day care. Mr. Starr responded that it would be for school age children only. Sister Glenn Anne McPhee noted that the 61 elementary schools within the archdiocese all have extended care, which is distinct from day care. She noted that day care goes through a whole different licensing process, while extended care applies to children who are enrolled in the school and no other children. She noted that the 61 schools currently have drop off times that can begin as early as 6:30 in the morning and end as late as 6:30 at night, which relieves traffic congestion, since as many as 50% to 60% of the children might be dropped off or picked up over an hour and a half or two hour period before and after regular hours. Commissioner Romero asked if the program would include day care and catechism for non- student parishioners, and whether fund raising activities such as bingo would take place in the evenIngs. The Sister responded that it would not be day care, and catechism programs normally take place either after a normal public school day or on weekends and this would not be part of the school program. She stated that she did not believe St. Augustine's was looldng to bingo. Chairman Barnett stated that St. Augustine's as a parish school and church would have other activities throughout the year just like any other parish has, with fund raisers and fairs. The Sister responded that they would have parent meetings, and probably a carnival or spring festival, which generally occur on weekends. F:\FILE CABINE1\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 14 of 26 Commissioner Honan asked what percentage of the site was parldng lot, versus building structures that will be placed on the 3.42-acre site. Mr. Starr noted that it was on the application, but he would have to look it up. He noted that they were looking at a floor area ratio of something like .25% or .22%, which he noted the percentages were fairly low for built area for medium density. Vice Chairman Teglia commented that a new set of numbers had been presented tonight that the Commission had not seen before, which was the survey based on occupancy per car and the parldng attendance. He noted that the original memorandum dated November 2nd showed an average occupancy of 1.97 per vehicle, and looldng at some of the attendance figures, 1,000 people at the peak mass is on its way to becoming the norm, and even taldng the 20% who walk, you still need 400 parking spaces and they have 250 if they are lucky. He asked if other options have been looked at to mitigating that current situation. Mr. Starr responded that the last numbers reflect the attendance at the 5:30 p.m. mass down to an average occupancy about 650. He indicated that, as noted on the sheet, the referenced mass was a special mass (All Souls Day) which coincided with the Sunday, so there was a particularly large attendance. He noted that this is the reason they are recommending a comprehensive approach. He noted that with the additional mass that was added, in combination with the car pooling program, has shown a significant improvement where the peak mass is down from 1,000 to 650, and is directly related to people from the 5:30 p.m. mass going to the 4:00 p.m. mass. He noted that this is the reason that a special program was prepared to allow it to function with whatever means are necessary to achieve the goals that they are proposing. He explained that what is unique about this project, is that they are looking at committing to reduction goals before the project is even built, to get the current situation under control. He added that he has been worldng with the City of Pleasanton who has been involved with a massive car pool program with their schools, and have been able to bring down the number of people driving to their schools by 34%, and required the cooperation of both the schools and the city. He stated that he felt this was a landmark case where you have a motivated active parish with a lot of children who can actually get the goals outlined and be able to commit to them. He noted that he understands the issue of the community feeling that they have not been responded to in the past, and they can't go back and redo that. However, he added that it is important that a specific complaint procedure is outlined, so that people feel like they can come back and deal with the problem on an ongoing basis should it continue to occur. Vice Chairman Teglia noted that there are obviously a lot of creative ways to mitigate some of the impacts, adding that he admits and applauds the parish in that they are definitely a motivated parish. He commented that one of the things that did not sit well with him at the last meeting was that, through his experience you may have a motivated parish, and yet the pastor still calls the shots. He stated that adding the additional mass as a mitigation measure was one of his ideas, and he felt that it had been met with a great deal of resistance. He noted that this particular church has exceeded its capacity so much that this may not be the only option, and may necessitate adding another mass. He commented that proposals need to be met with open arms, and while the parish is motivated, the last few meetings the pastor had seemed rather unwilling. He added that one of the things he would be interested in seeing to mitigate the current impact, is F:\FILE CABINE1\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 15 of 26 a greater cooperation towards trying to reduce the attendance, which are exceeding the recommended legal occupancy. Mr. Starr asked if when he was talking about the attendance, was he talldng about October, or since the new mass has been added. Vice Chairman Teglia responded that whenever. Mr. Starr noted that there is a huge difference, and he wanted to make that distinction since they have seen the attendance at 500 to 650 maximum at 5:30 p.m. since the 4:00 p.m. mass was started. Vice Chairman Teglia commented that obviously they are going to have growth, and what he is trying to say is, that while this is a conditional use that the Commission can review, a certain amount of people are coming at 4:00 p.m., and perhaps adjusting it to 4:30 p.m. and having a 5 :45 p.m. mass to try and spread out the number is an option. He noted that he felt a survey of the parishioners is warranted. He noted that part of the problem he is having with the entire packet is that there are a number of issues that need some serious creative consideration and he feels that not enough time has been put into it yet. He stated that he applauds a lot of the initiatives that have been proposed and likes the idea of seeing how those things are going to materialize before the building permit happens, but part of the Commission's job is also to look into the future, ten years from now, adding that he is having a hard time with that. Mr. Starr asked the Vice chair, since if they are already at 650 down from 1,000, is he asldng that they go to 300, or at what point would he be comfortable, adding that in his opinion this was a reasonable number for that parish. Vice Chairman Teglia responded that those figures reflect the current situation, but the discussions are on the expansion of the church, plus the school. He noted that many assumptions, which he felt were erroneously made in the reports, were that there would be no increase in the size of the parish adding that he knew for a fact that having a school would increase the size of the parish because of the parish participation. Mr. Starr responded that this is the reason the reduction calculations being proposed are based on an 800 occupant mass, filling every chair in the church, at the 2.96 which includes the walldng count you end up with 270 cars. He noted that they are proposing that the 270 cars will be reduced by 40 cars at a peak mass. He commented that they cannot commit to individuals never parking in front of somebody's driveway, or never parking on the street. He stated that he felt that the commitment allows the parish to respond to the issues, and if those cannot be met with the current proposals, they can add another mass, since it is in their best interest to solve the problem before it goes back to the Planning level. Vice Chairman Teglia noted that he would agree whole heatedly, but unfortunately the track record was not established, which leaves him with an uncomfortable feeling. He noted that the other question he has on parking is regarding the reciprocal parldng with the stores across the street. He noted that his understanding is that the stores were not willing to commit. F:\FILE CABINE1\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 16 of 26 Mr. Starr responded that they were willing to sign an agreement, but were not willing to make it a permanent easement, adding that that they are not relying on this with the proposed program. Chairman Barnett asked staff to clarify why this is a PUD. Mr. Upston responded that it is located in a PUD district and the zoning requires that the application be formatted that way. He noted that the proposal complies with all of the zoning regulations including parking. Chairman Barnett questioned whether it complied with the parking regulations. Mr. Starr clarified that the proposal complies, with the condition that there be no concurrent use with the school. He noted that with the 850 people based on the zoning code they would need 218 parking spaces, and cutting down the occupancy of the church to 800 they end up with an additional 12 spaces over the zoning regulations. Mr. Upston explained that staff's first concern was to insure that the proposed parldng plan would meet code requirements, and that the parking needs could be accommodated. Chairman Barnett noted that the school has nothing to do with the parldng problem. He stated that he felt that they were looking at two different phases to the project with different issues: one is traffic with both the school and the church, and the other is parking with the church. He noted that as far as he was concerned, the school was fine, and he could live with the community issues, since schools are a good thing. He added that his concerns were with the issue of parldng for the church. He commented that the numbers that shows two people per car, and you need one spot for every three people that attend don't hash out. He added that he did not know why the numbers were even presented, except that parking had become a perceived issue at some point. However, based on zoning codes, staff is saying that everything is O.K. He commented that he is used to seeing a PUD where the applicant is trying to cut a corner somewhere. He asked what corner were they trying to cut, and what does the City get for letting them do it. Vice Chairman Teglia asked more specifically, what they could do without a PUD and why was it being presented this way. Mr. Harnish responded that he was not sure why the ordinance required it, since they are not asking for any relief from the normal zoning requirements. Chairman Barnett asked if the Commission would have normally gotten this if they wanted to put this stuff under the normal zoning ordinance. Mr. Harnish responded that it would require a Use Permit, but they could do it. Mr. Upston noted that it was filed as a PUD application because administratively this is what the zoning ordinance requires, adding that the project, as conditioned, complies with all of the current zoning ordinance requirements and no exceptions to the Code or the City's General Development Standards are being requested. F:\FILE CABINE1\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 17 of26 Vice Chairman Teglia asked if the Commission could approve this without a PUD. Mr. Upston responded that it could be approved as meeting the parking requirements as a condition. Vice Chairman Teglia asked if the original proposal required a PUD. Mr. Upston responded that the original proposal needed to be modified in order to comply with the regulations. Commissioner Masuda noted that he attended the last community meeting hoping to hear from the residents screaming about kids making noise and bells. He stated that there were about 15 people including him, two in opposition and the rest represented the church with no input on noise. He stated that he surmised that the people in the neighborhood were willing to put up with the noise. He noted that the church seems to be solving the parldng issues themselves, adding that he had gone by there on Sunday in the rain and there were a couple of cars double parked, and nobody in the parldng lot. He indicated that he has problem with the 1.5 second wait on Westborough and Callan noting that he was there a couple of mornings around 7:00 or 7:30 and it took him two lights to get through, and got down to Westborough and Junipero Serra and it took him two and a half lights to get through, and when he got to El Camino, forget it, it took about three lights. He stated that he went over and sat by St. Veronica's school on Ponderosa and observed the people from Westborough going to St. Veronica's, and counted about 12 cars with single parents and a couple of kids who dropped the kids off on their way to work. He added that the same is true at All Souls where people drop the ldds off and leave. He indicated that he takes offense to the speaker who said that if you double park because it was Sunday in a rainstorm, if they get a ticket, let them pay for it. He stated that it cost the City more to send an officer to write a ticket than the $6.00 they get from a ticket, which is the reason you don't see the officers up there. He also noted that the same applies to the fire code, where at the first meeting comments were made that fire staff says they can put 600 or 800 people and look the other way. He noted that his problem is with traffic on Westborough and King where at 7:30 in the morning it looks like a freeway, and the only way you can make it in 1.5 seconds is to run the stop sign, which they do. He stated that by the time this is built and BART will be finished it will be terrible, unless Samtrans or someone else runs buses over the hill from Pacifica. He stated that he had worked in San Jose and had to take King to Junipero Serra and Westborough and had 100 cars behind him, adding that he had to take off an hour early. He noted that he doesn't mind the church expansion, but as far as the school and traffic, he would have to think about it, unless the City can buy some homes and widen Westborough to a six-lane freeway. Mr. Starr noted that one of the things that surprised him in researching what has been said about this being a regional parish (which is true), people come from San Bruno and Daly City. However, he noted that when they actually plotted the ldds who were interested in attending the F:\FILE CABINE1\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 18 of26 school, they proved to be much tighter than he had anticipated, and when applied to the map it took much more of an appearance of a neighborhood school. Commissioner Romero stated that to a certain degree he agreed that there was more of a problem with the school than the expansion of the church, but they were looldng at is an application to perform both functions. He noted that he would more supportive of an expansion of the church and a reconfiguration of the parking to alleviate some of the problems, adding the Commission's responsibility was to protect the neighborhoods, and he saw the school as an extreme hardship on the surrounding community. He pointed out that the church at one time had additional land which could have been utilized for a school, but sold it, which he felt was a decision made by the church at that time as to the feasibility of having a school on the site. He added that in his opinion the site is extremely small and cannot support both the church expansion and the building of a school. He recommended that church consider an alternative site for the school, adding that it was not necessary to build a school adjacent to a church in order to accommodate prayer. He stated that that the church could be expanded, and the traffic problems could be alleviated, but he had a difficult time trying to find a way to approve both on a site this SIze. Mr. Starr asked Commissioner Romero what conflicts he saw aside from the size of the site. Commissioner Romero responded that it was the size of the site and the potential impacts to the surrounding community. He noted that they have a petition that was presented to them, and they have to take those signatures to be an opinion of the residents in the area, indicating that they are not supportive of it. He noted that it was difficult to avoid spealdng for or against the church, and he was trying to avoid doing that; and was looldng at this as a Commissioner with an application for a use and the appropriateness of the use at this particular site. Commissioner Baldocchi noted that from the onset she felt that what they were trying to do with this piece of land is going to be over built. She noted that she too has a problem, and has raised it before, whether both uses, the expansion and the school, had to be on there. She noted that she would prefer to see the school, because building the school and educating children is good for the community. She stated adjusting the attendance at the masses, may prove that the expansion is not necessary. Commissioner Masuda asked Mr. Starr if separating the project was an option. Mr. Starr responded that in order to reach the fund raising goals (which he explained was fund raising to build the project, as opposed to ongoing fund raising, which was raised as an issue earlier, adding that the school is definitely not an ongoing fundraising project for the parish) the outside consultants had determined that the parishioners felt that both the expansion and the school were critical to the parish, and once you went for one or the other you lost half of the parish. He commented that in planning, a church and school use have always been seen as incredibly complimentary because they don't happen at the same time and don't have overlap. He noted that he understood the issue of the community feeling that they are having a burden put on them by having a church and asking if it is fair to put a school there as well. He noted that looldng at F:\FILE CABINE1\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 19 of26 the neighbors in close proximity of the school who are willing contribute money as well as to send their children to the school, is a strong indication, that they are acceptable of the mixed use. He added that generally schools and churches have never been seen as something that you had to have one or the other because the hours work out so well, and as has been demonstrated throughout the archdiocese schools work well in terms of not having traffic conflicts, and many schools in San Francisco are dealing with sites smaller that this one. Vice Chairman Teglia stated that he thought Mr. Starr was missing the point. He stated that he found this very difficult since he is probably the biggest fan of parochial education. He noted that several of the Commissioners attended parochial schools, that he is a product of St. Veronica's, St. Ignatius, and USF. He stated that he was an altar boy at St. Veronica's and understands the integral part that the church plays with the school, but he also knew that there are other ways of doing it. He stated that his mother currently is a teacher in one of the catholic parishes, and that particular school is offsite. He stated that part of his problem is that he is all for the school, and he felt that all of the Commission was coming from the point of view that expansion of the church works, with no school, or the school works with no expansion of the church, but trying to do both on this piece of property is overkill. He stated that the noise issue from the school could be mitigated, but the church was another situation where you could not command the same cooperation. He indicated that he could see approving the school without the expansion of the church. He stated that obviously the problem with the church is the reason 20% of the people are walldng to the church, and probably the reason 1500 people are not attending the mass. He stated that he felt that expansion of the church would encourage a major impact ten years from now. He stated that it is important to remember that a school brings a lot to the church, and it is a constant fund raising where the parents are constant fundraisers not only for the school, but also the church and are a big part of that community. He stated that he felt that the package has not been developed enough, and he would encourage something to happen, since he felt this was overkill, and it was definitely the responsibility of this community. He stated that in his teachings in catholic education taught him that they were responsible for the greater community. He stated that he thought there were things that could be done to make some of this work, and understood the desire to have it all, but felt it was unrealistic. Commissioner Sim expressed his appreciation for the dialogue presented by the Commission, and the audience participation. He noted that he has been evaluating the issue since he is a resident of Westborough and has friends on both sides. He noted that the issues are very difficult, but their responsibility was to look at the facts. He stated that he appreciated Mr. Starr and the congregation trying to deal with all the issues, and Ms. Frenna, and Ms. Dorr coming forward, noting the importance of active participation on both sides, while showing respect for one another. He asked Sgt. Massoni to respond to the request made by Commissioner Honan at the previous meeting regarding facts on potential traffic, parldng, and circulation issues. He stated that there are issues in the community that are related to facts as well as psychological. Sgt. Massoni responded that he was not able to come up with a number of parking tickets. However he knew that parking tickets are issued up there. He stated that there have been no vehicles towed since December of last year in that area for blocldng driveways. F:\FILE CABINET\OLD PC\WORKING\MlNUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 20 of 26 Commissioner Sim asked S gt. Msssoni if he could respond on a factual basis whether there has been a recent improvement in the area. Sgt. Massoni responded that in speaking to the patrol on the streets, they indicate that it is a hit and miss. He noted that he was not aware that there was a significant drop in the masses, and could not respond to whether there has been a change or improvement. Commissioner Sim asked if Mr. Harmon could speak to the traffic issue. He commented that some of the Commissioner's recommendations for additional services carry a pros and cons. He asked if Mr. Harmon could stipulate whether additional services would create more TRIP generation, and bigger services create parking, which he stated was a give and take. Mr. Harmon responded that additional services means the same number of TRIPS in a 24 hour period, but distributed at different times. He pointed out that to his knowledge there are no hard and fast rules for churches which might be called scientific criteria. He noted that each church has to be looked at individually, which is what was done here, and the traffic engineer, Mr. Wilson did the best he could based upon his judgement with the facts that were presented to him. Commissioner Sim asked Mr. Starr if he knew how long the leases were for the Ocean Market. Mr. Starr indicated that he did not know the length of the leases. He stated that the approach taken in the Improvement Plan is that this site was a condition, which stipulates the need for alternative sites, if the goals set forth in the program could not be met. He noted that the reductions as proposed are for perpetuity on the site for this use, so if there was an increase in mass attendance, the parldng limits would still apply, and if attendance increased, they would be required to institute shuttle buses, or follow the series of additional criteria, or pay fines accordingly. He noted that some of the conditions are pretty substantial, but allow for the palish to find space through flexibility. He indicated that the coordinator in Pleasanton is providing literature on the different things they have found to be effective, and will be used as a tool here. He added that this is a landmark situation with tremendously motivated people to make something like this work, and might payoff on other sites. Commissioner Sim asked Mr. Starr, regardless of the decision rendered tonight, that they consider looldng at this as a long term relationship, as a community issue where the church is part of the community, and the neighbors are part of the community, who share the same vision. He raised the issue of some of the speakers indicating that they had not been notified in the past, noting that dialogue could lead to strategy for a win-win situation for both the community and the church in what he felt was a communication issue. He noted that he liked some of the conditions that were presented by staff and Mr. Starr in terms of the building permits. He recognized the cooperation taken to raise $2.5M, and commended the church for their efforts. He noted that a possible way to accomplish the needs might be through compromise with the neighbors worldng together. He suggested looldng at the building permit from the view of; not whether the whole project is doable, or given a green light at the point where the traffic or parking issues are met; but going a step further with the church expansion issues being evaluated by Wilson Engineers evaluated for a period, and if the concerns are met to the satisfaction of the neighbors, issue the building permit for that segment of the F:\FILE CABINE1\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 21 of 26 project, and subsequently evaluating the issues for the second phase, again until the issues are found to be satisfactory, at which time the permit could be issued for that phase. He noted that he was asking for a peaceful co-existence and did not want to tarnish the reputation of St. Augustine's preparatory school based on the applicant getting everything, and the neighbors always feeling that way. Mr. Starr stated that their approach is to set the goals, take them to staff, and once compliance has been demonstrated, applying for a building permit. He noted that he does not see splitting the project apart. With reference to the issue of working with the neighbors, he expressed frustrations of being asked to work with the neighbors, where only 2 to 3 people are showing up at the community meetings. He noted that they have had four community meetings, where they come prepared, with presentations. Vice Chairman Teglia asked that they not dwell on the issue of community concerns, adding that what the Commission is looldng at is the project itself, noting that whether it's one neighbor or all of them, their valid concerns is all they are looking at. Chairman Barnett stated that Commissioner Sim had pontificated very eloquently maldng sure that everyone had a win-win situation, and asked if he had any suggestions for the Commission to try and resolve this. He asked that Commissioner Sim direct his dialogue to the Commission, adding that the Commission and not Mr. Starr is deciding on the project. Commissioner Sim noted that he was trying to do this in a way that he felt is right, and while the Chairman may have a disagreement, this was his way of doing his fact finding, and was not judging anything based on what Mr. Starr said. Commissioner Honan asked Mr. Starr if he had an answer to the question she asked an hour and fifteen minutes ago. Mr. Starr responded that the structures cover 22%, and parldng is 55% of the site, which includes all the paving and courtyards. Commissioner Honan noted that she is the product of catholic education and supports the catholic schools and churches. She noted that she is also a product of a catholic school that was divided, adding that it is doable, and she had survived it. She noted that she was not saying it was the best, but it was doable. She added that she is having a hard time understanding is how resolving the parldng problem at the church is going to be answered by enlarging the church and adding a school. She asked the remaining Commissioners if they agreed. There was consensus by some Commissioners. Vice Chairman Teglia noted that Commissioner Sim had an interesting take, and what he thought he was attempting to do is to ask whether they want a decision made on this plan tonight, or is there room for modification, and are they willing to work with the Commission. Commissioner Sim agreed with the Vice Chair, adding that he is hearing sentiments on the minority side that there should be a school, and others say no school. He stated that he felt they F:\FILE CABINET\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 22 of 26 should not just give it away. He indicated that he would like to make a motion that the Planning Commission approve PUD-98-052 and Negative Declaration ND-98-052 based on the attached findings and subject to the attached conditions with the following additional provisions: the project would be monitored for six months and if there haven't been any problems, it would have approval for expansion of the church; then after further monitoring of the project to allow the neighbors to work with the applicant for an additional six months, and if it is fine, the educational building can be considered. Vice Chairman Teglia interceded and stated that he did not think Commissioner Sim's proposal was doable, pointing out that the Commission is planning, and it was inappropriate for the Commission to say go ahead and do this, with all this monitoring down the road. He stated that there were a number of issues, where even if they were going to approve needed to be hashed out, such as the complaint process, and how the monitoring would work. He added that they have to start with a plan up front. He stated that what Commissioner Sim had basically done is approve everything as is, since it already has six-month monitoring. He noted that it is their responsibility to plan things right from the beginning since this is not something they are going to be able to monitor, and should be planned so that all the features are on auto pilot in order to move smoothly. He added that many of the proposals sound good on paper, but are not reality, adding that he did not think they could legislate the behavior up there. Commissioner Sim responded that what he was asldng is that the building permits not be issued unless certain things are met, with very firm indication through the monitoring. Chairman Barnett asked Commissioner Sim if he stood by his motion. Commissioner Sim answered in the affirmative. Mr. Harnish asked if there was a second to the motion. Discussions followed that there were still questions. Assistant City Attorney Lindgren asked if there was a second to the motion. The motion failed for lack of a second. Vice Chairman Barnett stated that he has heard one major opinion: that there is too much on the property to handle this project, and that somehow they should make it happen. He added that what he has heard, is that it is not going to happen on this piece of property. Vice Chairman Teglia commented that the question is whether it is going to be denied, or can it be modified and continued. Mr. Upston noted that the question had come up at the last meeting, and staff had recommended that the Commission look at the proposal as it has been presented, and that action should be taken on this proposal, whether that action was for or against the project. Commissioner Baldocchi noted she was still not satisfied with the information that has been F:\FILE CABINE1\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 23 of 26 communicated back and forth between the applicant and the school district, as far as looldng at another option for the school. Chairman Barnett noted that it was not relevant. Motion-Teglia/Second-Baldocchi - To deny based on discussion tonight, with the understanding that the Commission is torn and while they found many commendable concepts to the project, the entire project is too much. Approved by the following roll call vote: A YES: Commissioner Masuda, (commenting that he was voting in this manner since he was not about to give a permit to build, and have the problem solved later), Commissioner Honan (commenting that she was voting this way because there is too much on the site), Commissioner Baldocchi (because it's too much for the site), Romero, Teglia (feels terrible to say aye, but this particular project, he did not think is addressing the issues, adding that he hoped the school plan isn't totally damned and a modified plan comes back in the future), Barnett NOES: Sim (because he thinks there is a modification possibility, the building permit is not let until the monitoring is allowed and has occurred) ABESNT: None ABSTAIN: None Chairman Barnett commented that it was very unfortunate that the Commission was unable to come to a consensus on this project, adding that he knew from working with this Commission, that if there was any way possible, it would have happened, and he felt that the applicant was asking for too much on the site, and hopefully would not abandon the plans for another parochial school in South San Francisco. Chairman Barnett called a recess at 10:20 Meeting reconvened at 10:35. 5. City of South San Francisco, Applicant, Case No. ZA-96-113 Zoning Ordinance Amendments establishing new zoning districts, development standards and approval procedures. (Continuedfrom December 3, 1998) Motion- Baldocchi/Second- Romero. Vice Chairman Teglia noted that he was concerned with the fact that repair services were permitted in the Coastal Commercial where the Commission had other ideas for those areas. Mr. Carlson explained that it was intended to be similar to a light commercial for repair type facilities intended for personal services. He pointed to a typographic error on page 4, which F:\FILE CABINE1\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 24 of 26 listed automotive repairs, which he noted is not intended to be allowed in the district. Vice Chairman Teglia asked if exempt meant that they are exempt from everything that is permitted in the area. Mr. Carlson responded that it was more of an administrative type use. Vice Chairman Teglia asked for clarification about the, page 11, new uses, marina, big box retail and recycling facilities. Mr. Carlson responded that it reflected the range of new uses allowed by the East of 101 Area Plan. Discussions followed on the issue raised by the Vice Chair with staff providing explanation. Assistant City Attorney Lindgren indicated that the Resolution included in, the Commission's packet included two minor typographical errors to reflect that the Commissions consideration is December 17th not December 3rd. Motion-Barnett /Second-Teglia. Approved by unanimous voice vote. ADMINISTRATIVE BUSINESS 6. Items from Staff Mr. Harnish distributed a copy of the Caseload Status Report and provided the Commission with information pertaining to items scheduled for upcoming meetings. He stated that the meetings will be lengthy, and staff will be attempting to organize the more critical items early on the agenda. He asked if the Commission had any questions on the items listed they should call him. He noted that several big items coming up, not listed on the report, include the Terrabay EIR, which he thought may be ready for the first meeting in February. Commissioner Baldocchi asked about the General Plan. Mr. Harnish responded that the staff is worldng with the consultant to put the document together, but indicated that he thought it would be several meetings before the document is ready for circulation. Assistant City Attorney Lindgren addressed Commissioner Baldocchi stating that they have discussed her potential conflict with regard to a portion of those discussions. Sgt. Massoni advised the Commission that as of the January 21st meeting he will not be attending the meetings regularly, and asked that if they have any questions or issues for the Police Department, that they should call him before, or convey them through Jim. He noted that if need be, he could arrange to attend the meetings or have Ron Petrocchi or an alternate attend. F:\FILE CABINE1\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 25 of 26 7. Items from Commission Commission Honan reported a problem with a sign at the tax donation place. She also asked if there is an ordinance regarding shopping carts in parldng lots, noting that the Brentwood parldng lot does not have any place to place the carts within the parking lot. Mr. Harnish noted that he has asked Mr. Upston to contact the property owner of the car rental site, and suggest that they clean the area up before the Enterprise item gets to the Commission. Mr. Carlson noted that the Use Permit for Smart and Final contains a Condition of Approval that stipulates that they will collect the carts and take them back into the store on a regular basis. 8. Items from the Public 9. Adjourn The meeting was adjourned at 10:50 p.m. " hristopher Barnett, Planning Commission City of South San Francisco Jim H\~~ nis Secret . ~y tc. e Planning Commission City 0 South San Francisco JH:is NEXT MEETING: Regular Meeting January 7,1999, Municipal Services Building, 33 Arroyo Drive, South San Francisco, CA F:\FILE CABINE1\OLD PC\WORKING\MINUTES\1998\121798.DOC Page 26 of 26 I /". 6' Jocelyn Lasat 3723 Callan Blvd, South San Francisco, California 94080 December 17, 1998 Planning Commission City of South San Francisco 33 Arroyo Drive South San Francisco, CA 94080 To whom it may concern: I the undersigned wish to have my name removed from the list of those opposed to the school and church project at St. Augustine Church in South San Francisco. Indeed, I have made a pledge to the church for the project! At the time the lady asked for my signature, I had company at home, she was very insistent and in an effort to shorten her talk and return to my guests, I signed the petition. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused. Sincerely, (l t. ~ ~ Lasat